Posts by Sea Breeze

43

Members of congregation know it’s not true

by Mikejw in

we have lonely old folks and even some not so old.. they know the gb are not who they claim to be.. but they stay in the congregation because they are lonely.

i wonder what percentage of jws this is the case, i would guess a lot.

.

Sea Breeze

Just think what would happen if all the members who know it's not true decided to leave regardless of the repercussions.

I think the WT would experience a 50% loss and the WT probably couldn't survive that. So, it's really a lack of character and fear that keeps the whole charade going.

22

The Rapture

by Sea Breeze in

when i was pioneering, i don't remember ever addressing the rapture question.

does anyone know how a jw would respond to this verse?

for the lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of god.

Sea Breeze

I wonder what the old "understanding" was?

17

Has The "Evil Slave" Died Out?

by Sea Breeze in

those of us who have deep roots into watchtower remember the shadowy whispers about "the evil slave" when we were kids.. for those that need to get up to speed: .

the internal crisis came to its full with the occurrence of an outstanding bible-predicted event, namely, the coming of jehovah’s “messenger,” christ jesus, to jehovah’s temple for judgment in the spring of 1918, to separate the “faithful and discreet slave” class from the “evil slave” group.

(mal.

Sea Breeze

I wholeheartedly agree Kerry. But my question is that if both are prophecies (which we know they are not) but going along with the WT fiction, how can the evil slave die out but the faithful slave hasn't?

Are they going to have a new "evil slave class" like the king of the north" donkey doo doo they pedaled for years?

- Sea Breeze from the "Can't Get It Off My Shoe Class".

17

Has The "Evil Slave" Died Out?

by Sea Breeze in

those of us who have deep roots into watchtower remember the shadowy whispers about "the evil slave" when we were kids.. for those that need to get up to speed: .

the internal crisis came to its full with the occurrence of an outstanding bible-predicted event, namely, the coming of jehovah’s “messenger,” christ jesus, to jehovah’s temple for judgment in the spring of 1918, to separate the “faithful and discreet slave” class from the “evil slave” group.

(mal.

Sea Breeze

Those of us who have deep roots into Watchtower remember the shadowy whispers about "the evil slave" when we were kids.

For those that need to get up to speed:

The internal crisis came to its full with the occurrence of an outstanding Bible-predicted event, namely, the coming of Jehovah’s “messenger,” Christ Jesus, to Jehovah’s temple for judgment in the spring of 1918, to separate the “faithful and discreet slave” class from the “evil slave” group. (Mal. 3:1-3; Matt. 24:43-51, NW) The cleavage between the two groups became more evident after the opponents’ failure to gain their ends at the 1918 corporation meeting. After that January meeting the opposition leaders remained in Pittsburgh to form a separate organization headed by what they called a “Committee of seven.”k By Memorial time, March 26, 1918, the separation had become irreconcilable, as the opposers chose to celebrate the death of Christ apart from the Society’s faithful congregations.

It had been the Society’s usual practice to publish a partial report of the Memorial attendance as sent to the Society by congregations in this land and abroad, but due to the 1918 disturbances, both internally and externally, the attendance figures were not gathered. However, in 1917 the partial report of the Memorial (April 5) showed 21,274 in attendance as associates of the Society. By 1919 Memorial time (April 13), according to partial report showing attendance of 17,961, it became evident that a minority of less than four thousand had ceased to walk with their faithful former associates.l From this time of separation the “evil slave” group came into further internal disagreements and divisions among themselves. Eventually several other small dissentient groups tried to establish themselves but, after brief existence, disappeared.

In the latter half of 1917 the faithful forefront preachers of the “discreet slave” class energetically took up distribution of The Finished Mystery, for within seven months the Society’s outside printers were busy on the 850,000 edition. “The sale of the Seventh Volume is unparalleled by the sale of any other book known, in the same length of time, excepting the Bible.”a Not only did this book crystallize the opposition of the “evil slave” class, as already indicated, but it also brought forth a most bitter reaction of the clergy in many parts of Christendom. (w55 4/1 p. 205-206)

The evil slave class (supposedly fortold in the bible) refers to those who didn't go along with Rutherford during his corporate takeover.

So my question is: Has the Evil Slave died out? If they have, why hasn't the FD&S died out as well?

22

The Rapture

by Sea Breeze in

when i was pioneering, i don't remember ever addressing the rapture question.

does anyone know how a jw would respond to this verse?

for the lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of god.

Sea Breeze

They did offer that it 'could' be that the annointed still alive prior to Armageddon could be taken to heaven all at once

I do remember someone posting something about that here on JWN fairly recently, in the past few years, So, it seems that the WT is allowing for a rapture of sorts ... only for those claiming to be of the 144K of course.

I don't really see how they could outright deny it. The verse is very clear... we will "meet the Lord in the air". Trying to symbolize something that clear is probably too risky.

22

The Rapture

by Sea Breeze in

when i was pioneering, i don't remember ever addressing the rapture question.

does anyone know how a jw would respond to this verse?

for the lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of god.

Sea Breeze

When I was pioneering, I don't remember ever addressing the rapture question. Does anyone know how a JW would respond to this verse?

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. - 1 Thess. 4

31

German Branch visit talk Mark Sanderson (Parents; don't hinder young children to get baptized)

by Daniel1555 in

jw
friends

the video streaming of the german branch visit program was excrutiating 3.5 hours long.. i just went to see the last 45 min (part of mark sandersons talk).. i think sanderson is quite a sympathetic speaker and he kind of made a loving impression.. he didn't mention controversial stuff (except for one thing i will come to soon).

he mostly talked about how to find joy, even when life is not easy, and how much the gb loves the rank and file.. one point seemed soooo important to him.

parents and children.

Sea Breeze

Makes sense. The Watchtower collects a lot of cash from European governments based on membersip numbers.

Follow the money.

16

The Greatest Christian Doctrine

by Sea Breeze in

the wt likes to quote ad infinitum that the central doctrine of the christian faith is the trinity.

they quote some catholic sources, yadda, yadda, yadda.

it is a great misdirection.

Sea Breeze

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9

Well, at least now you know what Jesus is asking of you. He created you. There is nothing to be afraid of.

You might change your mind someday after you do the math.

16

The Greatest Christian Doctrine

by Sea Breeze in

the wt likes to quote ad infinitum that the central doctrine of the christian faith is the trinity.

they quote some catholic sources, yadda, yadda, yadda.

it is a great misdirection.

Sea Breeze

we just can't live forever unless we "plug in" to the source of life

That's not a term in the bible. How do you "plug in" with your theology? Good works, like loving others? Scriptue says that's not good enough. Jesus is the source of life. He claimed "I am the Life". Cf. John 4 - "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life".

god provided another older brother to stand in for adam and take his place

Jesus takes our place, not Adam. Adam gave everyone death. Jesus give life to those who agree to allow Jesus to trade places with him. Only in this was is he a type of 'second Adam". Jesus switching places with us, is the point of this post. It is the central doctrine of the Christian faith.

Did you see the video in the OP?

“God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21)

Q: Are you denying the doctrine of Substitution like Watchtower does?

he said he'd be with us all the days until the conclusion of this difficult time

We are not in a "difficult time". There is more comparative peace now than ever. The context of Jesus' statement here is the Great Tribulation. The Jews will be the object of extermination during the latter half of the GT. Christians already have Jesus living inside of them.

he meant what he said
he is "plugged in" to the source of life

Jesus is the Source. He lives inside of believers which is the true temple of God. This is another core Christian doctrine:

1. Romans 8:10—“Christ is in you”

“But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness.”

We human beings were made by God with three distinct parts: body, soul, and spirit. Our human spirit is our deepest part, created with the ability to contact and receive the Spirit of God. When we received Jesus as our Savior, He came into our spirit. Now He’s in us, so our “spirit is life.”

2. Second Corinthians 4:6-7—“This treasure in earthen vessels”

“Because the God who said, Out of darkness light shall shine, is the One who shined in our hearts to illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us.”

In verse 7, the apostle Paul describes the believers as earthen vessels that contain this treasure. What is this treasure? In verse 6 we see the treasure is Jesus Christ, in whose face we see the glory of God. Christ lives in us earthen vessels as a precious treasure, revealing the glory of God to us from within.

3. Galatians 1:15-16—“His Son in me”

“But when it pleased God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called by His grace, to reveal His Son in me.”

We might think this verse should read, “It pleased God…to reveal His Son to me.” But in Greek, the original language of the New Testament, the preposition is unmistakably in, so the verse reads “to reveal His Son in me.” God’s plan is to reveal His Son in us, from within, rather than to us, from without. From within us, God is pleased to reveal more of the wonderful Person of Christ.

4. Galatians 2:20—“It is Christ who lives in me”

“I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself up for me.”

Here, Paul did not say, “I live in a Christ-like way,” or, “I glorify Christ through my behavior.” No, he said, “Christ…lives in me,” clearly showing us that Christ lives in His believers. Because He lives in us, the Christian life is not a matter of trying to behave like Christ, but of allowing Him to live in and through us.

5. Galatians 4:19—“Christ is formed in you”

“My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ is formed in you.”

Just as a woman travails, or labors, in childbirth to bring forth a child, Paul said he travailed in birth to bring forth the believers in Galatia as his spiritual children. This travail began when he preached the gospel to them, helping them be born anew with the life of God by receiving the Lord Jesus as their Savior. Then in this verse, Paul says that he continued to labor on them so that the Christ they received would be fully formed in them. Christ lives in us from the time we’re saved, but He wants to be formed in us in a definite way by growing in us. Day by day, we need to give Him the opportunity to grow and be formed in us. As we do, Christ will be able to express Himself more fully through us in our daily life.

6. Ephesians 3:17—“Christ may make His home in your hearts”

“That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, that you, being rooted and grounded in love.”

Jesus Christ is living in our spirit. But from there, He wants to spread into the rest of our inward being, that is, into our heart. Our heart includes our mind, emotion, will, and conscience. The Lord doesn’t want to just visit our heart, like a guest visits a hotel. He wants our heart to be His home, where He has the permission and freedom to live and move.

7. Colossians 1:27—“Christ in you”

“To whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.”

This verse shows us not only that Christ is in us, but that He’s in us as our hope of glory. When we believed in Him, Christ came to live in our spirit. Now He’s moving into our heart to make it His home. In the future, when He returns, He will even spread into our body so that God’s glory can shine through our entire being. The One who lives in us is our hope of such glory.

8. Second Thessalonians 1:10—“Glorified in His saints”

“When He comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed.”

Christ’s second coming will surely be a marvel. And according to this verse, a most wonderful thing will happen: His glory will be revealed from within His believers. The Christ in us, who is living in us, being formed in us, making His home in our hearts, and who is our hope of glory, will be revealed from within us.

What a glory to God, a marvel to man, and a shame to the devil, that there are people on this earth who would choose to receive Christ and allow Him to grow in them and be glorified in them for all to see!

In other words, unlike adam, jesus has an intact relationship with god

That's quite an understatement, since Jesus is "God Manifest in the flesh" and "the exact representation of his being", has "ALL authority in heaven and earth", and "in whom the fulness of deity dwells bodily".

Q: Have you asked Jesus to come live in your heart F.A.?

If not, what's preventing you?

16

The Greatest Christian Doctrine

by Sea Breeze in

the wt likes to quote ad infinitum that the central doctrine of the christian faith is the trinity.

they quote some catholic sources, yadda, yadda, yadda.

it is a great misdirection.

Sea Breeze

our being "saved" has to do with his actions, not ours
we only have to choose to accept that free gift

The will of God and the will of man are both involved in Salvation, like a marriage. Two wills become one. Your two statements above seem contradictory. Choosing to accept is an action. But the real work on our part is simply to believe. Once a person believes (which is an internal artifact of our will) then the outward manifestation follows.

It is really important to get it right, in this order. The danger is that a person might put trust in their works instead of Jesus. And scripture warns: "by the works of the law shall no flesh be Justified".